Breaking the Curse of Intergenerational Addiction
“I'm going to use that energy of my own life to break the bonds of generational addiction, to free myself and not let addiction be my identity.”
On the podcast today, we're getting into some intentionality of working through intergenerational addiction.
If you as a listener struggle with some type of addiction, or know people who struggle with addiction, this episode is going to be quite meaningful.
I want to first give Deb the acknowledgement of how brave and courageous it is to seek out this kind of support. Deb being on the podcast and being willing to share so openly helps to destigmatize addiction.
Addiction is an incredibly complex topic. You’ll hear just how complex of a situation it’s been for Deb, her family, and her lineage.
You’ll especially want to tune into this client session if you, too:
» have difficulty connecting with others and loving yourself
» know there’s a deeper issue than just addiction
» aren’t sure what you’re responsible for
» feel like your family might be cursed
» have a family history of addiction
Topics covered in this podcast episode:
What inspired Deb to seek out constellation work
How to know what part of the problem to take responsibility for
How the guilt and cycle of addiction are part of Deb’s entanglement
The stories, beliefs, and feelings that add up to the resistance of moving beyond
How people receive messages from ancestors during constellation work
What patterns were present in Deb’s life and her ancestor’s life
How a constellation work facilitator is able to notice messages from the ancestor
How we’re able to locate a curse placed on a family lineage
What types of resources the entangled ancestors desire
Time and time again, constellation work is the modality people find when they’ve tried everything else. This work goes directly to the root of the problem—no matter how far back or how complex the situation.
Both the entangled ancestor and the descendant are able to find healing and peace.
My intention with this conversation—with whatever you're navigating—that you find some hope and some of your own freedom for something that's felt bound for generations.
Until next time, may you receive all the love and blessings.
Resources:
Connect with Amy:
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of The Soulful Visionary Podcast follows
Amy Babish:
Have you ever felt like there's something more just waiting to be unlocked in your life? Like no matter how much you've accomplished, a deeper potential is calling. Welcome to the Soulful Visionary podcast, where I guide you to align with your authentic self and create a life of purpose, love and lasting impact. A life where you can truly soar beyond what your mind can comprehend. I'm your host, Amy Babish, a licensed psychotherapist and an expert in somatic coaching, feng shui and wisdom traditions. With over 20 years of experience guiding thousands of clients through soul level transformation. Each week we'll dive into potent practices, live client sessions and insightful conversations to help you dissolve intergenerational patterns and transcend your upper limits so that you can live the big life you are meant to live. Tune in and let's unlock your inner wisdom together.
Amy Babish:
Welcome into the Soulful Visionary podcast. I'm your host, Amy Babish. And today I have the honor and pleasure of speaking with Deb, who has been. We have been in each other's lives off and on since a period of being school together. And for ENN and Minnie, we're not going to get deep into that story, but she's back in my life now as a client and as a friend and just someone who I care about deeply. And on the podcast today, we're going to get into some intentionality of working through intergenerational addiction. And so, yeah, so we're going to just see where we go and how we can offer support. And if you as a listener struggle with addiction or types of addiction, or know people who've.
Amy Babish:
Who struggle or who struggle with addiction, I think this, this episode today is going to be quite meaningful. So welcome in, Deb. We'll just take a few breaths together. We know our podcast is only audio, but I could see there's just a lot of energy building in you as we kind of just join the space together.
Deb:
Yeah, good idea.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. And so as you start to arrive, would you like to start with your intention? And we're probably going to iterate the intention, but just in your own words, what would you say your intention for your work is today with. With me?
Deb:
Thank you. I mean, it seems massive, but you know, to break the bond of generational addiction in my lineage and I think finding the right level of like what my ownership and responsibility in that is. I am sober almost 20 years. My mother is sober, my brother is sober, dad, not sober grandparents. I mean, we're talking as far back as the eye can see. We have Alcoholism. And now one of my adult children is struggling with addiction and is back home. So while there has been a great degree of healing already, the fact that this is still popping up the way that it is and obviously wanting to support him and feeling some of my own stuff triggered feels like this may be bigger work, intergenerational work.
Amy Babish:
Okay. And this is. This is really like, you're being so brave to come and get this kind of support, but also to destigmatize that many people struggle with this. And it's oftentimes, even in this era, it's still. It's still in a very secretive place. So thank you for being vulnerable. Thank you for. For bringing this.
Amy Babish:
And we're gonna. We're kind of. We're gonna refine it. So you're doing a really great job of kind of naming. Like, this is kind of like some of the history. And when you first. You first started talking, you said, to break the intergener, to break the bond of generational addiction in my lineage, what my ownership and responsibility is. And then you.
Amy Babish:
You got into your own sobriety. So then we kind of went into some. What I'd say, like more historical pieces. I'm going to zoom us back into getting really clear about the intention when you name. To break the bond of generational addiction in my lineage, what my ownership and responsibility is. Do you feel like you're not able to do that? I want to understand what the resistance is because that will be woven into the intention. Have you tried to understand your own role or your responsibility or. You said now that your.
Amy Babish:
Your son is struggling with addiction, like your own stuff gets triggered. What is. What is getting triggered, what's in the way? Because that will help us refine the systemic field.
Deb:
Sure. I think that there is a certain amount of. I'd like to think that I had already worked through this, but I clearly haven't guilt that. That this was. You know, I mean, I. The. The kids were six at their twins and I. When they were six, when I got sober.
Deb:
And so, you know, they. They didn't have a full and complete and full mom to come into the world too. And I also have been working through my own anger, I think, even at also not coming into a world with a whole and complete set of parents. So I think that's part of it. And in some ways, this opportunity for him to be here in my home again feels like the chance to get it right and to support him in ways that I wasn't supported and had to figure it out. On my own. Not that I didn't have some support. I did, but it's different.
Deb:
But then also, there's this, you know, do I. You know, I talked to my mother about this a little bit, and, you know, the immediate suggestion was go to Al Anon, you know, which has always been kind of the thing with my family. It's like, go. You have a problem, like, take it over there. Like, go get help over there. And I don't participate. And I did Alcoholics Anonymous for many, many years, But I don't know. It's a whole other story.
Deb:
And so that didn't feel like the right solution for me was to just go running to Al Anon. And it felt even a little bit, maybe that's part of the resistance is like, it felt again, like, not my problem. Go deal with it over there. So when it comes to my son, it's like, I want to roll sleeves up and get in here and support and help, while at the same time being acutely aware of the threat of enabling or making things more. More difficult for him to find his own way or, like, honoring his sovereignty as an adult person. Can I answer the question?
Amy Babish:
You did. You did, you did. And this is such a really important part of the process, because, as you know from our work together, when we start working with intention, it's really the systemic and ancestral field is speaking through you. So these are your. This is your lived experience. These are your lived questions. And we know it didn't start with you. And so even the questions you're carrying around, I want to roll up my sleeves without enabling him, allowing him to be sovereign.
Amy Babish:
So those are like, that's what you are wanting for him. What do you want for you? Take your time.
Deb:
I think it's freedom is the first word that comes to mind. There are multiple ways in which I don't feel free, you know, but I think that at the core, it's. It's freedom. I don't know that the addiction is the core. I think that's part of what, like, led me astray from stray from Alcoholics Anonymous was that I was like, I'm kind of this whole, like, putting my full identity, and I'm deb, I'm an alcoholic for the rest of my life. And claiming that identity for myself, even though I can see that it was supportive and early, I came to kind of an understanding, or at least a belief maybe that there was a cause for the addiction, that there was something deeper than that, rather than it just being like, the addiction is the Problem. Let's keep our eyes on that. And as long as we're abstinent, we're going to be okay.
Deb:
And so, you know, I did begin some deeper digging, like with you, and have learned that is, in fact, the case. There is. There's deeper stuff, and it prevents me from having connections. I have a difficult time connecting with people on a level that I want to have a difficult time connecting. Even with my own family. I have a difficult time consistently loving myself and showing up for myself, and that's probably the key thing. And I see that repeatedly, and my baby, too, where it's just very difficult time seeing. I can see this bright, beautiful, amazing, loving, brilliant person, and he's just.
Deb:
He can't. He's just trying to numb the pain. And I get that, you know?
Amy Babish:
Yeah. And when you were. You know, some of the things you're talking about are like, the guilt of. I want to do it differently this time. Do you feel like when. When you're on this precipice, I'm not free in these places? Yeah. You know what's happening as I say this? Yeah, something. Something's happening.
Deb:
I'm just hearing you say the guilt. Just repeating what I said to me, it was just like, wow, Yeah, I have a lot of that. It's there. That's a big thing. Please, I. I'm. Listen. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. So the guilt is part of the entanglement.
Deb:
Yeah. Okay.
Amy Babish:
And the cycle of addiction is part of the entanglement. So just. Just, you know, you know, this process. But also, for listeners, the intention always has a forward movement, and we can hear in Deb's words, she wants to break the cycle of generational addiction. She wants to know her role and responsibility, and she also wants to be free herself, and she doesn't want addiction to be her identity. And you want to do it differently with your son than the. Than the lack of familial support that happened with your own sobriety journey. And also kind of overall, that the problem comes up, like, not our problem.
Amy Babish:
Go get help somewhere else. So you want to also not have that be your process in parenting. And what gets in the way is guilt. And then it sounds like it's not fear, but it feels like there's, like, some, like, caution or pause with going from being hands off to the pendulum swinging to, like, you being enabling and enmeshed.
Deb:
Yeah, for sure.
Amy Babish:
Is there anything else that gets in the way when you think about breaking this generational cycle, your own freedom or doing it differently with your son? What else Any thoughts, feelings, emotions, stories.
Deb:
Think that there is a. We talked about this very briefly at one point, but I do. When I. When I first got sober, I was having like, I'm. I'm sensitive in ways and I have like audio. You know, the things will come to me and I'm like, what was that? And when I first, you know, cleared the chemicals out, I was having a lot of dreams and a lot of sensations and I started having. Hearing this. This curse, this word about curse, you know, a lot.
Deb:
And I think that there is. This is something that I've heard my son refer to not. Not in that exact language, but himself too, where it's like, no matter what I do, life is just not. It's not. I'm not going to have, you know, what I want. Like, it's. There are. There are moments where it's just like it's not worth doing the extraordinary effort that it takes to stay clean or stay sober.
Deb:
So just so I can keep going back in this pattern. And I think that I though I resist the belief it comes up for me too. Is that like, well, are we. I mean, everybody who shares my DNA mostly is addicted or was or recovering from and still struggling in their own way. Are we. Are we cursed? Like, is this something that is just our cross to bear? Is this just what we have to deal with in this life? I think that might trip me up sometimes too is whether or not that's true.
Amy Babish:
You know, so when you say that as we. We're tuning into the field, as. As the more like we call these reports, as more reports come in, even though there's just you and me, your. Your system and your field is speaking through you. Right. So when you talk about are we cursed? And it's a sarcasta bear, a lot of energy comes into my receiving of that. Yeah. And there's a lot of tears coming.
Amy Babish:
So what happens as you just really honestly put that on the table?
Deb:
I mean, oddly it's. This is gonna sound so strange, but oddly it's a little bit of a release because it's like validation. A little bit like my. One of my roles in the family or my perception of my role, particularly because I'm so sensitive and very like very like open emotionally, is that I carry a lot of the expression. And because of that I can be the one that's like shut down a lot. So there's, you know, too emotional crazy doesn't, you know, all, you know, or dad and you know, and so to kind of have it validated a Little bit that this is not something that I'm carrying on my throat, you know. Does that make sense?
Amy Babish:
Yeah, yeah, it makes complete sense. And I mean, you said that this is kind of prolific in the entire family system. So it's also not just, you know, not just you carrying it, but potentially the whole system is. Is carrying it. So I feel like we have. We have what we need. Do you feel like we have what we need for the intention?
Deb:
Yeah, I think so. I mean, there may be one other piece just to bring up, which is the religious aspect. I don't know. Is that okay?
Amy Babish:
Yeah, that's worth. That's worth naming and throwing in the pot around existence.
Deb:
There's so much soup. I know that just from stories like passed down that on the matrilineal side, that there was a lot of, you know, alcoholism and abuse that happened, and the antidote and antidote to that was like, deep religious, you know, And. And I think on the one hand, there's a really beautiful, like, trusting of and finding sanctuary in that probably saved the lives of some of the women in my ancestry. But I also think that in many ways there's this sort of like. Or anyway, that's how I have felt that there's been, especially in my. In my older life or in these recent days, I should say, a little bit more of, like, feeling limited by that. Opportunities to maybe grow and expand that. Then I feel like, wait, I can't do that, because this is the thing that.
Deb:
That heals us. This is the. The belief system that. That keeps us safe. And if I depart even just a little bit from that, I bring shame upon the family. I bring darkness upon. You know, so maybe that's worth addressing as well.
Amy Babish:
I have a lot of energy in my heart when you say, like, I feel like a weight on my heart when you say that. So it's. It's a part of the soup, as you would say. Okay, so our first step is you're going to hold this intention of, like, where you want to head. But then what has been in the way or your repeated experience, like, that's the resistance. So we're going to hold both parts. And just like, you know, a radio station we were growing up, we're going to turn the dial to tune into your intention and the resistance, inviting you and I and your systemic field to tune into that frequency. And when you.
Amy Babish:
When you tune in, you're going to either get images, you might notice things in your body, but we're going to get. This is just our tune in. It's our initial. Our initial layer. So both of us will tune in. And what happened? What did you notice, Deb, when you.
Deb:
Tuned in from a physical standpoint? I'm surprised. I feel it here mostly, like in my heart area.
Amy Babish:
Okay.
Deb:
It feels like this is very surprising, but it feels like. Like, oh, we're looking at this. Like, oh, like we're like. I get. Like I'm going to be seen, you know, Like. Like a moment. Like that.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. Can you believe that?
Deb:
Really painful. But this is like, you know.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's such an important thing to name because it doesn't have to be like this big, bad, scary thing, even though it's been so much pain for so many generations. Like, sometimes our ancestors, just like you are the descendant who's wanting to be seen and wanting to take these things out of the shadows, you don't want to have to bear this cross. Sometimes whoever you're entangled with doesn't want this either. Right. Yeah. Imagine that. Sounds like we might be on the right.
Amy Babish:
The right spot. Okay, so our next layer is even though you consciously know the answer, we just ask for a refinement.
Deb:
So.
Amy Babish:
So you consciously have told us both your parents struggle with addiction, but now that we have the expanded intention, we know it's more than just addiction. So you're gonna present your mom behind your left shoulder and your dad behind your right shoulder. And when you present them, you're gonna ask them about the resistance portion. So do you carry this feeling that we're cursed? Do you carry this feeling that no matter what we do, we're not going to be good enough, like parents or people? And that we will always come on hard times, and it's just going to be never ending? And then also they're going to kind of like, be like yes and no on something. So we're going to get the majority of it. And do you carry the fear that if you break away from religion as being the answer, that you will bring shame and darkness? So that's. It's a big, big few questions to ask them. And when you ask each of them, we're not going for the one that just has one part.
Amy Babish:
Whoever has the most parts, that's who we're going to follow. So I'll let you ask them.
Deb:
Yeah. I mean, it's strongly maternal side.
Amy Babish:
Okay. So even though consciously you've said, like, it's for generations, we're going to just go through a few generations just to do our due diligence. So behind your mom, you're going to bring in her parents in the same way, her mom, your grandmother behind her left shoulder, your grandfather behind her right shoulder. And you're going to ask them again.
Deb:
It's still the maternal. It's. It's her mother.
Amy Babish:
Okay. And then we're gonna. We're gonna. We'll just. Just for those of you who are like, how many generations is going to be. We're gonna do a couple. We're gonna do Cliffs Notes. So we're going to go another.
Amy Babish:
We're going to go another two generations, just to be sure. So you're going to go behind your grandmother for her parents, your great grandparents, and ask them again, too?
Deb:
Yeah. To have both. Yeah, I think it's. Yeah, I. I think it's maternal there as well.
Amy Babish:
Okay. So then we're going to ask her parents, your great great grandparents.
Deb:
It's less clear. But I actually sense maybe more than paternal in this case, but I don't.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, I feel that. I feel that, too. So we're going to. We're going to go until we feel like the pressure is gone. So when the system has alleviated, that tells us we go one step forward again. So we want to go to the place where it's really not there at all. So we're going to go behind your great great grandfather to your three greats, back his parents.
Deb:
Paternal.
Amy Babish:
Okay. And does it feel like it's still as intense or does it feel less intense?
Deb:
It feels less intense. I felt most intense with his son. Yes.
Amy Babish:
Okay. Okay. So we're gonna. We're gonna focus on your great great grandfather on your mom's side. Okay. So we're going to ask him to show you where this started for him so he can bring you to the time of his life. It might be at his home, it might be in the community. He might be a different age and just see what he shares with you.
Deb:
It's okay if it's kind of vague images.
Amy Babish:
That's okay. Yeah. We'll start. He has to build trust between you and me and him. So it's kind of like, you know.
Deb:
Yeah, it, like, it's like working out in the hot sun or like being out in the hot sun. I feel like there's, you know, there's hunger and thirst and just lack. Powerlessness, misery.
Amy Babish:
Okay. And you can say to him, because there's so much going on, you can say to him, I'm your great great granddaughter. I'm your descendant. Do you know that you're dead?
Deb:
Yes.
Amy Babish:
Okay. Did he know that? Does he know who you are?
Deb:
No.
Amy Babish:
Okay. Yeah. So you can say to him in your own words, I carry the curse that was put on you. I carry the guilt of not being a good enough parent. I carry the pattern in a cycle of addiction. I'm sober now, but I'm coming to you because I'm hurting, and so is my son. Your great, great, great grandson. We need your help.
Deb:
I mean, I'm. I'm sensing. I mean, I'm not getting words, but I'm sensing that he's very surprised by this, very surprised that he carried that much power. Like the ability to pass something with deep sadness. Would like to help, but doesn't feel like he can help, doesn't know.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. Yeah, that's okay. We're not asking him directly for help, but we're gonna. The way that he can help us is by giving us the context. So you can say to him, you're not going to be the one that's helping. We're going to get you and me help, but first we have to understand, were you punished? Did you lose your. Did you have wealth and lose it? Did you make a deal that was not. That was duplicitous? Did someone trick you? We want to hear the context of how he got to be in this place where he's toiling, he's miserable, he's hungry.
Amy Babish:
What was hap. And it could be something systemic. It might not be specific to him. Like, it could be. Everybody's having that experience in his time. We want to find out what's happening for him. Where did this come from?
Deb:
He. He didn't have options. Is. Is the sense that I get, like, it's. There wasn't a. No. It's almost as though he's. He's having to provide more than he should have to with limited skills or limit.
Deb:
Like, he doesn't have access to these. Forced into this situation to carry the burdens of many.
Amy Babish:
Okay, ask him, was it always this way in his life from when he was born?
Deb:
No.
Amy Babish:
You feel hyper responsible. Okay, ask him what happened when. What happened that changed his circumstances.
Deb:
It's as though he was taken. I, I, There's. There's something maybe like d. Like I'm almost sensing, like a. Drafted into the military or, or maybe. Or maybe it even feels like forced to work in on a. For a large. I mean, I'm not, I'm not getting real clear like, like, like what.
Deb:
What is even that term when the, the farmers. That would have to. It's definitely, though, it's more like farming than it is, like, military. It's like. But there is violence. There's violence.
Amy Babish:
Okay.
Deb:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Kim, did he know that that was going to happen, or was it a punishment or was he tricked into it?
Deb:
I'm getting the sense that it was like, I. There was no other resource, and so he had to do it to provide for maybe a child or a wife or.
Amy Babish:
Okay.
Deb:
Several children.
Amy Babish:
Okay. And once he did this, ask him, does he feel like he got worse?
Deb:
Yes.
Amy Babish:
Okay. And did he feel like. Ask him. Oh, that's okay. That's okay. Because what I'm curious about is really, like, the systemic roots of this, because he wasn't the only man farming there. So I can feel. I can feel he's in the.
Amy Babish:
In the field with a lot of men. Yeah. So ask him, can he. Can he share with you? Was this something that was political or something created by the church, or was it, like, a rich landowner?
Deb:
When you said church, that. That lit up.
Amy Babish:
Okay. Okay. And was it something where he didn't know the church could be so cruel?
Deb:
Yes.
Amy Babish:
Or. Okay. And it feels like when I feel into it. Ask him if his family ever told him about, you can't trust this kind of person or this kind of thing is bad, or you never know when someone's going to trick you. Ask him if he's ever heard those things before in his life.
Deb:
No, he hadn't. He didn't know any better. He thought he was doing the right thing.
Amy Babish:
Yep. Yep.
Deb:
Very vulnerable. Very.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, yeah. And ask him, did he carry guilt that he couldn't fully provide for everyone with this choice? Okay. And ask him did he feel like other people were having other. Having other options, Maybe people not on the farm, but, like, people. If he can show you, like, was there another whole culture or another whole existence happening around him of the people who didn't have to toil on the farm?
Deb:
Yes. But he was so disconnected from it. I'm getting now, like, a lot of, like, the working in this situation, living in this situation was. Was so abusive and violent and terrible that, like, it wasn't like he would look outside of it. It was all consuming. And so, like. Yes. You know, he's aware that other people lived better.
Deb:
Maybe even his own parents may have lived better, but he himself was stuck in this hell.
Amy Babish:
Okay. So we're gonna. We're gonna step back to his parents, going to invite his parents in. So your great, great, great grandfather, his dad, because that was also where it lit up slightly. And so you're going to ask him, did you know, did you know your son suffered like this? Did you know your son was tricked by the church?
Deb:
He. He knew of the situation, but wouldn't frame it that way. He wouldn't call it being tricked by the church. He.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, we want to hear. What are his words?
Deb:
He, you know, did what he had to do.
Amy Babish:
Okay, and. You mean his son. Oh, sorry. We talked to each other. Is he saying that about himself or about his son?
Deb:
Well, there seems to be this, like, Matt. Like he's saying it about his son. He did what he had to do what needed to be done. But there's also this, like, you know, kind of a man does what a man has to do kind of thing happening. So it's a little. Maybe both.
Amy Babish:
Okay. And can you ask him, can you show us what was going on in that time that your son would have to toil like that to no end, whereas other people maybe weren't suffering like that?
Deb:
I just. I get this. Like, he. He ain't right. Like, he wasn't right. He. Like, he didn't have access to this other world. He had to go this way because there's something wrong.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. So this feels important because in my tune in, I. I got something that my first question was, was somebody mentally ill? And so I got. It looked like. Like an old stone structure. Like, I don't want to call it a castle, but like a really big house. I didn't see the farm when I tuned in, but I had, like a. It felt like my head was really, like.
Amy Babish:
It's a sensation I get when mental illness is present. I felt like my head was being, like, really constrained, and it felt like my jaw was also being constrained. So as a facilitator, I'm holding the question. I don't have the answers, but I'm curious. When your great, great, great grandfather says he wasn't right, I'm wondering if that's what he means. And there's just not a word for it in those times. Okay. And so you can say to your great great grandfather, I am your great great great granddaughter.
Deb:
It feels like so much detachment, you know, it feels like. Like.
Amy Babish:
Yes.
Deb:
Okay. Yeah. Like he feels like. Like he put him out of his mind. And mostly.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. So we're going to ask him, where did you learn to disconnect from your kids?
Deb:
I mean, again, there seems to just be this very, like, you know, that's what men have to do, and we don't have space, you know, for emotion, all that stuff, which is of the era. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
So this. This Is important because we want to get enough of, like, the, like, really understanding how complex this is. And especially you're a mother, but your son is having this. I feel like he's having this. He's entangled with this. So we're going to ask your systemic field to what we call step us back. So we want them to step us back. And that means it might just be like two generations back.
Amy Babish:
It might be a hundred generations back. We're going to ask them to show us where the curse lives. The curse that has disconnected parents from children. Sometimes it looks like mental illness, Sometimes it looks like addiction. But no matter what people do in the lineage, they're not fully supported, and there's a lot of misery. Does that sound you as the descendant? Does that resonate when I say it like that?
Deb:
Yes.
Amy Babish:
Okay. So when they step us back, it might be very similar to what you first experienced, but we're going to just hope that they can give us something a bit more. Bit more tuned in.
Deb:
Are we? Am I sorry? Good.
Amy Babish:
Oh, go. You know, go ahead. Go ahead.
Deb:
I was just looking for clarity on what I was asking, but you. You're about to say so when you.
Amy Babish:
You're asking them, I want to be taken to the ancestor that I'm standing with or the ancestor that I'm tangled with where the curse started. And the curse has looked different in different generations. But the. The essence of the curse feels like parents disconnected from children around addiction or mental illness and a lot of pain, no matter what choice is made. Does that feel right to you?
Deb:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
Yes. So we'll ask them. You can say, who am I standing with? Or where am I standing? And you can ask them to be as specific as you need because you're the descendant.
Deb:
This is.
Amy Babish:
This is important for you.
Deb:
Like a woman. She's very upset. It's much different than. Than the last two.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Deb:
Like screeching.
Amy Babish:
Yep.
Deb:
I'm not getting her name clear. That's her name. Like Thelma Teresa something, you know? I don't know. That's okay. Okay. That's okay.
Amy Babish:
So you can say to her, I carry your rage. Yeah. I'm your descendant. I don't know how far back you are, but I am. I am in the year 2025. And you can ask her, does she know that she's dead?
Deb:
I don't think she knows she's dead.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, she doesn't know. She doesn't know. Yeah. Yeah. So you can say to her, I'm not here to make you bad and wrong. I'm here to learn about what happened to you and to get some help for our. Our families and stuff. And for you, for me and for my.
Deb:
So, like, the. The first moment of, like, non. Just like, screaming I got from her was, you have a son. She seems, like, really interested in the fact that I have a child. I sense that she also had a child that. I mean, obviously that. That she. That's part of where her rage is from.
Deb:
Like, that she doesn't have a child.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. So you can say to her, I want to understand your pain because a curse lives in our family. A curse lives in our family around mental illness and addiction and parents not being able to connect with their children and not being able to take full responsibility for what has happened in fear of the church.
Deb:
Like, she was very young and was pregnant and the baby was taken from her, and she was told that she was not mentally healthy enough to care for the baby. Church took a baby.
Amy Babish:
Okay.
Deb:
She doesn't believe that she has. That she's mentally ill. Just.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. And ask her, did. Does she believe that in her own rage that she might have cursed people?
Deb:
Can you say that one more time?
Amy Babish:
We're asking out of curiosity, not out of judgment, but in her own rage and loss and grief, is it possible that she could have cursed anybody that touches the baby?
Deb:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Deb:
But. But she feels like it. This feels important that it's. It's the. It's the baby as part of the bigger package. It's not like at the baby. It's the church. And.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Deb:
Like. Like all. Yeah, but she. There seems to be this very important. Like, I didn't mean to curse the baby. Know I didn't.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, I. I feel that from her. Yeah.
Deb:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
She didn't know. She didn't know that the baby was going to be cursed. When she cursed everybody that touched the baby, like the systemic field, the church, it feels like nuns took care of the baby. And whoever adopted the baby, it feels like she cursed them too. But because there was so much the troll going on, the baby absorbed that. And so for you as the descendant, Deb, what happens when you hear this reflection?
Deb:
It's super sad.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Deb:
And I'm. I'm curious how we break the curse.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to ask her. And she may or may not know. It might not have been around when it was her, when she was alive, in her lifetime, but is there something that could have provided safety and support for her? It might have been something from the land, a sacred tree. It could have been Something outside of what she was told by religion.
Deb:
Yes. Yes.
Amy Babish:
And what. What is the resource that she would like to invite in?
Deb:
I mean, she's. She's very. Of the earth, like, of the forest?
Amy Babish:
Yeah. Yeah. And so is there a sacred forest that she'd like to bring you to? Yeah. Does she know where to take you?
Deb:
Yes.
Amy Babish:
Okay. And do you know this place?
Deb:
I mean, it's. It's familiar, like a sort of fantasy kind of place. It's not a place I've physically been.
Amy Babish:
Okay. But, you know, you have a. You have a contact with it. It feels familiar in some way.
Deb:
Yes.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. So you can say to her, you've brought me here before. I just didn't know you were there. Yeah. You can say to her, you matter. Your story matters. The pain and the rage and the grief matter. Your forest matters.
Amy Babish:
Your baby being taken by the church matters. And you can say to her, I didn't know it, but I have been connected to you or loyal to you through my connection to the curse you created. Around all of this, I've been on the receiving end of the curse, and so has my son, and so has my entire family. And what happens when you express that to her?
Deb:
She feels sorry. She seemed really kind of delighted by the fact that I had been in this sacred place with her before.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Deb:
Which you never made. Like, I think before, before we went there, she was, like, not so sure. But once I told her I'd been there before, she's brightened up quite a bit. And, I mean, still seems, you know, seemed like almost like a little kid, you know? Yeah. But it feels like. Like maybe the concept is too big for her to conceive that. That that act could have affected so many other people.
Amy Babish:
We're going to ask the forest to give her support around this. So the wisdom of the trees, the wisdom of the land, it can transmit things that go beyond words, that go beyond time and space. And we're going to invite that. That's place and space to give her the support that is incomprehensible to her around all this, that can help her to understand what has unfolded. So the wisdom with compassion, it might be in her feet coming from the ground. It might be in the air, it might be in the sunshine, it might be in the birds. It can come through all different forms of transmission, really. I can feel it in her heart.
Amy Babish:
And the trees and the forest can reflect back to her. We know you're not mentally ill. We know this was cruel. We know it was a tragedy.
Deb:
She's Feeling much more at peace.
Amy Babish:
Yep.
Deb:
But I think that the willingness to fully let go, like, I'm still feeling a little bit of like. Like, I. But. But they still needed to be punished, you know, like, there's still a little bit of, like, I. I need that. Like, there's a vindication or something that she seems to need. Does that make sense?
Amy Babish:
Yeah. So. So we're going to ask the systemic field to bring her baby to her. He might be a baby still, or he might be an adult, but that she can see his suffering. It wasn't her intention, but holding on to being the perpetrator after she was perpetrated against won't heal her son. It won't heal her. And what happens when she sees this and hears this?
Deb:
Yeah, she's. She's blown away.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Deb:
She wants to keep him. She wants to keep the baby. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
So in this. In this space, she wants a baby that's whole and complete, that's totally freed, but a baby that has the curse is cursed. So we can ask her. When you remove the curse from the whole system, you free your baby and you free your love. You free him, you free yourself. Does she need the help of the forest to release the curse? So she can ask the magic of the forest to dissolve the curse. Throughout all time and space, throughout all generations, any remnants around addiction, mental illness, disconnection from parents and children, confusion with the church, shame or darkness around the church, and that any bonds of generational addiction in your lineage is dissolved. And having clarity around what is yours and what you're responsible for becomes very clear and inviting sovereignty.
Amy Babish:
So what happens when we give her that invitation?
Deb:
She is willing. And I feel it all over.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. Do you feel it's done?
Deb:
She. She says, I. I want you to have the choice. You know? I want you to have the choice.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Deb:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Does she feel that she can fully be with her son now that the curse has been dissolved?
Deb:
Yes.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else you want to say to her?
Deb:
I just. I. I have so much compassion for why she did what she did and gratitude for, you know, the willingness to elus. I have more curiosity about her magic. It's the first ancestor I know of that knew a life like that. It wasn't. Wasn't completely in the church, so I have curiosity about that.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. You can keep on getting to know you. And the next thing that we say to her is that I'm going to take my life back from you. You'll live in my heart always. Your story, your legacy. That's different now. And I'm going to use that energy of my own life to break the bonds of generational addiction. To free myself and not let addiction be my identity.
Amy Babish:
To be in right relationship with my magic and the church. Yeah. Is there anything else that she needs to say to you?
Deb:
I don't think so. I think she was like, okay, I'm good. And now she's off with the baby.
Amy Babish:
That's, that's really, that's what she really needed.
Deb:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
So how are you, how are you feeling?
Deb:
I think it'll take some time to process unlike anything I've ever done before. But it's really, it's really interesting the, the. The freedom. I know the way that you phrased that and that I phrased to her. You know, I hope I can articulate it again. The freedom to, to live my own life and then, and then the clarity of what, you know, what my responsibilities are to be. I'm looking forward to that. I think that's the, the main thing that's at the top of my mind is.
Deb:
Is anticipation, not fear. Anticipation of, of having that clarity and, and seeing this kind of transform not just for myself, but for my son.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Deb:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
And this work, you know, as, you know, like it will integrate in its own time. You want to drink lots of water and you know, really be kind with your body. And when you feel like you need a resource, you can call on the forest and you might meditate in those forests. You might just call that space into your own home. You might ask the forest to fill your home. You might ask the forest to care for your son. So those are some initial ideas. Do you have any other questions for me? Anything else?
Deb:
Thank you.
Amy Babish:
Thank you. Thank you, Deb, for your bravery. Thank you to your lineage and for everybody who stayed with us. I really feel like Deb coming on is permission for whatever you feel like you're struggling with. When you think you have the answers and when you like, think like this is the only way it's going to happen and it's still not happening or it's still not working and there's so much pain prolifically across everyone in your system. This kind of one to one individual constellation work is so powerful. And I invite you to reach out to me to schedule a 90 minute session with me. And for many, many clients that I work with, their lineages are so complex that we do many one to one constellations.
Amy Babish:
So it's not, it's. It's. For some people it's one and done. But just to clarify that, and I hope with whatever you're navigating as a listener that you get some hope and some some of your own freedom for something that's felt very bound for generations. If this podcast was meaningful, I invite you to leave a review. Let me know what you want more of, and I can't wait to see you in the next episode. Thank.
Amy Babish:
That'S all for this episode of the Soulful Visionary Podcast. If you found value in today's episode and are ready to delve deeper into aligning your inner world and environment, please subscribe to this podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Your subscription helps us to reach more soulful visionaries like yourself, and if you've been inspired by what you heard, I'd be incredibly grateful if you could leave a review. Your feedback not only only helps others discover this podcast, but also guides me in creating content that truly resonates with you. I'll catch you in the next episode as we continue to unlock the love, purpose and fulfillment you deeply crave.